When your Religion Cancels You. That was the topic selected for our second podcast episode over at The Convocation: Unscripted. Little did my fellow podcasters know, that’s a sensitive topic for me this week. As I write, my denomination is dictating the terms that will require my home church and many others to leave the denomination over a new interpretation of what is now deemed “confessional,” one that requires condemnation of same-sex relationships.
The prosperity gospel and Christian nationalism offer to us everything Satan offered to Christ when he tempted the Savior in the wilderness. Not dissimilar today and biblical times.
Kristin, I am sorry to hear of the decision of the CRC this week. The RCA where I hold my ordination is on the other side of the issue, losing churches because we won't condemn gay marriage.
Praying that your congregation and you can find a new denominational home.
Between the CRC and RCA, I really wish there were a way to mix us up and separate us out. At a certain point, we just need to move beyond the division. I also worry about the harm done in separating over one issue, though--how that will affect many other issues within the alienated groups.
Thank you for sharing the excerpt from Pastor Len's sermon with his illuminating passage on the crucifixion as God's divestment of power, in contrast to humanity grasping for power. There's much to reflect on there.
I've followed you and Robert for a few years and am really finding a lot of hope you both and the others in this group. It is good to know what I've understood from a lifetime of Bible study wasn't completely crazy. Thanks so much for walking the walk. It feels good to know that someone somewhere would say an Amen to my prayers for this country and for the church. Your article summed up what I have been trying to say, but in a nicer way. I have felt that the Republican party and the church have gotten each other drunk with power.
I am grieving with you, my sister. My adult life has been one long progression of excommunication, so I have some idea of what you're going through. I'll listen to the podcast tomorrow.
It sounds like you are following the (United?) Methodist Church, but a few years later. We hope to have a more open and affirming church after the departure of some for the Global Methodist Church. Back and Forth, over and over, Good Luck.
Many people have coped with this, certainly someone as knowledgeable as Kristin was going to. See the many interviews of Bart Ehrman to see how he got through it.
My life in church ministry began in 1979 when I told a couple buddies in a hot tub conversation in Campbell, CA that I was “going to go into the ministry but did not want to make a lot of money or become famous”. After the Newtown Shootings in 2012 I hastily prepared U2’s “Peace On Earth” for my worship leaders to sing in Sunday morning services replacing the names of Irish children in the song with names of children killed in the Connecticut shootings that Friday. . . I was asked to resign because “my style was no longer accepted by the congregation”, gave a final message, and left the church a week before Easter in March of 2013. . . . I have been trying to figure out what the “heck/suck” happened these years since. . . . I remain passionately committed to Jesus and to a vision for the thriving of all Creation, all Creatures, and all Humanity.
I am so thankful that you have a community/family/partners who are walking this road or “excommunication” WITH ONE ANOTHER. . . . the wilderness is often experienced without that kind of support. Peace to you, Kristin.
I'm so sorry you are experiencing this division. The message from your Pastor Len really sums it up.
We listened to the sermon you suggested last month and will listen to this one on Sunday. We no longer attend the ultra-conservative church where we were founding members. Now we stay home and listen to good sermons. The only other church is 50 miles away :)
Thank you for sharing this struggle. You aren't alone.
I'm so glad you're finding the sermons encouraging. Any sermon by Len or Pastor Andrew will be wonderful. If you go back further, any by our former pastor, Karen Campbell, are also gorgeous. You can follow her on Substack, too.
I don’t know the politics or dynamics of Synod this year but having been a delegate once I truly believe that most of the men and women there are trying to do what is pleasing in God’s sight. And have spent much time in prayer asking that they vote exactly that way. My wife has stage iv colon cancer. After 2 surgeries and 63 chemo infusions and when dying is easier than living, peace is hard to find. Yet we have trusted God to be sovereign and have found peace in Jesus. We are one body but it always seems easier to find peace individually than it is to find peace corporately. Maybe it will only come when Jesus does but I agree that we do need to strive for peace as the body of Christ as difficult as it may be.
Prayers for you and your congregation. I think of the friend of decades standing over me, shaking a finger and telling me I was wrong when my congregation was leaving our denomination. She told me I was wrong to say we should follow the Bible before a denomination. Now I would state that as follow Jesus as so many seem to worship their version or interpretation of the Bible rather than Jesus. Belonging to a denomination with shared tradition, theology, community, structure is so valuable. It is hard seeing that torn apart. Thankful you are part of a solid worshiping community and appreciate your sharing and insights.
The prosperity gospel and Christian nationalism offer to us everything Satan offered to Christ when he tempted the Savior in the wilderness. Not dissimilar today and biblical times.
Kristin, I am sorry to hear of the decision of the CRC this week. The RCA where I hold my ordination is on the other side of the issue, losing churches because we won't condemn gay marriage.
Praying that your congregation and you can find a new denominational home.
Between the CRC and RCA, I really wish there were a way to mix us up and separate us out. At a certain point, we just need to move beyond the division. I also worry about the harm done in separating over one issue, though--how that will affect many other issues within the alienated groups.
Thank you for sharing the excerpt from Pastor Len's sermon with his illuminating passage on the crucifixion as God's divestment of power, in contrast to humanity grasping for power. There's much to reflect on there.
If we have no peace, it’s because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. Mother Teresa
I've followed you and Robert for a few years and am really finding a lot of hope you both and the others in this group. It is good to know what I've understood from a lifetime of Bible study wasn't completely crazy. Thanks so much for walking the walk. It feels good to know that someone somewhere would say an Amen to my prayers for this country and for the church. Your article summed up what I have been trying to say, but in a nicer way. I have felt that the Republican party and the church have gotten each other drunk with power.
I am grieving with you, my sister. My adult life has been one long progression of excommunication, so I have some idea of what you're going through. I'll listen to the podcast tomorrow.
It sounds like you are following the (United?) Methodist Church, but a few years later. We hope to have a more open and affirming church after the departure of some for the Global Methodist Church. Back and Forth, over and over, Good Luck.
I’m sorry Kristin that you are having to cope with this right now. You and your fellow congregants will be in my prayers!
Many people have coped with this, certainly someone as knowledgeable as Kristin was going to. See the many interviews of Bart Ehrman to see how he got through it.
My life in church ministry began in 1979 when I told a couple buddies in a hot tub conversation in Campbell, CA that I was “going to go into the ministry but did not want to make a lot of money or become famous”. After the Newtown Shootings in 2012 I hastily prepared U2’s “Peace On Earth” for my worship leaders to sing in Sunday morning services replacing the names of Irish children in the song with names of children killed in the Connecticut shootings that Friday. . . I was asked to resign because “my style was no longer accepted by the congregation”, gave a final message, and left the church a week before Easter in March of 2013. . . . I have been trying to figure out what the “heck/suck” happened these years since. . . . I remain passionately committed to Jesus and to a vision for the thriving of all Creation, all Creatures, and all Humanity.
I am so thankful that you have a community/family/partners who are walking this road or “excommunication” WITH ONE ANOTHER. . . . the wilderness is often experienced without that kind of support. Peace to you, Kristin.
Great stuff.
I’m sorry 😞
I'm so sorry you are experiencing this division. The message from your Pastor Len really sums it up.
We listened to the sermon you suggested last month and will listen to this one on Sunday. We no longer attend the ultra-conservative church where we were founding members. Now we stay home and listen to good sermons. The only other church is 50 miles away :)
Thank you for sharing this struggle. You aren't alone.
I'm so glad you're finding the sermons encouraging. Any sermon by Len or Pastor Andrew will be wonderful. If you go back further, any by our former pastor, Karen Campbell, are also gorgeous. You can follow her on Substack, too.
https://illuminatebykcampbell.substack.com/
I don’t know the politics or dynamics of Synod this year but having been a delegate once I truly believe that most of the men and women there are trying to do what is pleasing in God’s sight. And have spent much time in prayer asking that they vote exactly that way. My wife has stage iv colon cancer. After 2 surgeries and 63 chemo infusions and when dying is easier than living, peace is hard to find. Yet we have trusted God to be sovereign and have found peace in Jesus. We are one body but it always seems easier to find peace individually than it is to find peace corporately. Maybe it will only come when Jesus does but I agree that we do need to strive for peace as the body of Christ as difficult as it may be.
Prayers for you and your congregation. I think of the friend of decades standing over me, shaking a finger and telling me I was wrong when my congregation was leaving our denomination. She told me I was wrong to say we should follow the Bible before a denomination. Now I would state that as follow Jesus as so many seem to worship their version or interpretation of the Bible rather than Jesus. Belonging to a denomination with shared tradition, theology, community, structure is so valuable. It is hard seeing that torn apart. Thankful you are part of a solid worshiping community and appreciate your sharing and insights.
Wow! I could listen to a pastor like that!
I think about the "peace, peace, when there is no peace" verse all the time.
So many blessings to you and your congregation as you go through the process of leaving your denomination. Glad it's being done together.