Definitely adding to my booklist. Matt Taylor's ICS session last night (in his antisemitism course) was the best yet, with some really great discussion of how the eschatology of the dominionist NAR crowd is influencing American evangelical end times views all around - toward a "victorious eschatology". Talked about messianic Judaism in the mix too. Wow...
One challenge presented by Taylor’s work is how severely he limits the NAR exclusively to the networks around C. Peter Wagner (and even then he excludes some significant players who were directly connected to Wagner, notably Bill Johnson). In American Dominion, I show how Mike Bickle became a bridge figure between the Latter Rain Revival and the NAR. He has a very different, premillennial eschatology in which Christians pray the plagues of Revelation down from heaven. This eschatology bears some striking similarities to Identity theology, which branched off of what became the NAR during the Latter Rain.
It's all really fascinating. My wife and I were college group leaders in a large baptist church for a while. I always thought the dispy stuff was just mostly hamrless and goofy. Since reading Kristin's book, as well as Katherine Stewart's "Power worshipers" (read them both 3 times), and then Matt's book I've come to see it's not harmless at all. It's been really interesting to look at social media content from old church folks now in light of Matt's work.
American Dominion may also be a worthwhile read! It shows how what has come to the mainstream in recent years is far more extreme than anything that Jerry Falwell or other previous leaders of the Religious Right could have promoted.
Thank you for the excellent synopsis and discussion of this important book. The connection of Christianity to the Trump regime is something that ai struggle with understanding, no matter how much research and exploring i do. This book sounds like it provides some important perspective. Thanks for highlighting it, and the general discussion of how religion has been involved in the disruptive moment we find ourselves living in.
Thank you for this Kristen! Always good to get a serious book recommendation especially from you. Also it was lovely to see your shining face today on TCU and your insights were great as well as getting a good chuckle from the meme discussion !
The book excerpt reminds me that concurrent with Feucht's eruption in San Francisco, the Roman Catholic bishop was hanging banners on his parish churches protesting covid "oppression." Lots of nuts out there, some wily and dangerous.
I’m not sure if this applies directly to what you are describing, but in American Dominion, I did address the connection between Catholic Integralists (such as JD Vance and the Heritage Foundation’s Kevin Roberts) and Protestant dominionists.
Much to the distress of such good Catholics as Nancy Pelosi, Pope Benedict appointed a very right wing bishop in SF. I'm sure he's comfortable with the integralists.
Feucht had a concert in the town adjacent to us, I kept warning years back of the influence of these dominionists & other related networks creeping in all over California (also church plants and the mega churches as outposts). I ended several friendships as they were clearly becoming brainwashed. (One argued with me way back when I saw this creeping in that Hillary was part of Pizzagate. Also, her daughter went to Bethel). Their conferences in lovely So California were hits tgat many churches were a part of... I still think a Hollywood style tour bus of such influencers, gathering sites & their history would be a hit, lol! Maybe a house tour like Sean's $$$homes.
Sean Feucht is such an important figure, and he is so irritating that we would like to pretend he does not matter. I saw him on his Let Us Worship tour a few years ago. In American Dominion, I show how his theology of worship as a form of warfare comes out of the Latter Rain revival. He takes this concept literally and uses worship to demonize those who oppose him.
I look forward to reading your book, I know little about the Latter Rain revival.. He is absolutely a huge influence & joins (and leads) many in demonizing the opposition, influencing crowds he serenades with his "worship" music... basically a form of brain washing.
There seems to be two flavors of dominionist these days: this one referenced in the book connected to the NAR and then the Reformed people like Doug Wilson and Pete Hegseth. If they ever got what they wanted, they’d almost have to battle each other for ultimate control. 😬 They have some similarities theologically but more differences!
Yes, but they started coming together politically in the mid-1970s already. Some people exist entirely in one strand of the other. Many are influenced by both, whether they realize it or not.
Additionally there are many common origins that provide disparate groups with a shared goal. For example, the distinct governmental spheres of Reconstructionism and the “seven spheres” that became the Seven Mountain Mandate both come from distortions of Abraham Kuyper’s “sphere sovereignty” via Cornelius van Till. And both Rousas John Rushdoony and Francis Schaeffer studied under van Till, with Schaeffer basing much of his later work on Rushdoony’s writings. We also find Neo-Confederacy intertwined with Reconstructionism, so there is little surprise that it has so much in common with today’s white supremacism.
Politically together for now, but I don’t know if they would be able to actually “rule” together if it worked out like they want. The NAR recognizes female prophets and apostles and Wilson wants to take away women’s right to vote. I guess it just gives me hope that it wouldn’t actually work. I have no desire to go back into crazy cult land again. I value my freedom!
I talk about the Doug Wilson and other Reconstructionist types along with NAR types and others who don’t quite fit either mold (like David Barton) in American Dominion.
I was a part of a charismatic Christian organization that, in general, held very similar beliefs to what is written here about Sean Feucht. Charismatic Christianity is not a monolith -- there were even progressive types who were careful about colonialism in missions and advocated for social justice. And also, the seeds for Christian nationalism grew up with care for the marginalized. I fear the good in charismatic circles (the radical belief that God is actively working in the world, right here, right now) has been overtaken by violence.
And I can sympathize with Feucht in the midst of shut-downs. It does FEEL restrictive from one point of view. But I ended up taking a different view, that we needed to protect and care for people (especially those with compromised or vulnerable immune systems) by restricting my own liberty.
I feel for my co-religionists in the charismatic world. And something I learned while in that realm rings true today: "What you believe has real, tangible consequences in this world."
Those are very good points! My approach to Pentecostalism is that it is not a monolith and has origins all over the world, including with the Pyongyang Revival, Azusa Street Revival, and Welsh Revival. Charles Fox Parham’s version was just one strand, and that is what came to shape the NAR. Globally, the Pentecostal message — that God is right here with us and that we can experience God’s miracle-working power in our daily lives — has been political dynamite, especially for people living under oppression. Unfortunately, the NAR version has come to dominate in recent years. I attribute much of this to the worship music coming out of places like Bethel Church and Hillsong, along with the influence of YWAM.
Seems like an interesting book, but I find myself growing increasingly frustrated and critical with my loved ones when I see influences like dominionism in them. @DrDuMez, I’m sure you’re not new to this feeling, how do you keep from getting into constant arguments about all the topics you research and write about?
Avoiding arguments and getting to the heart of the matter can definitely be a meaningful approach, especially when we do not want to further isolate people into their own silos (while also siloing ourselves). When thinking about something that is under attack by dominionists, such as public schools, I try to look at something people of all stripes care about, in this case, the special needs of children with developmental and learning challenges. There is no requirement at all that private schools even admit special-needs students, but public schools are required to meet their needs. Most people know and love a child with special needs. This takes away the argument and gets right to a reason why we should care about public schools.
Such a good example. I worked in our public schools for 5 years and the care and resources devoted to special needs students was inspiring. I also cite the seriousness with which abuse allegations (not to mention camp safety precautions) are taken, in contrast to churches' responses. When I was a student teacher, a student told my host teacher her dad had spanked her so hard she couldn't sit down. The teacher had to call a hotline that day or risk being suspended. I've been volunteering in churches my whole adult life, and protecting kids has never been such a priority.
I work with children’s services and cannot tell you how much we rely on public schools to help our kids who have experienced complex trauma. Many, many children in foster care are years behind academically and have challenging behaviors as a result of the conditions they lived in. Too many of these kids will lose any chance they had without public schools.
The answer to the question, “What are you going to do, bro?” Is “Wait it out, this is temporary: there’s a world wide pandemic that’s killing millions and though it could appear we’re under attack, we aren’t. This will pass.”
As it has.
When Covid is an excuse for anger at people, the forces of power and money steer us from spirit. And now it’s “Thelma and Louise.” Think Jesus is your co-pilot as you drive off the cliff? Look again. Sequel unlikely!
Sean Feucht also has an aggressive personality type. If you read his first memoir, he shares a story from when he did premarital counseling and was advised to not marry his fiance because of the high risk that he would become abusive. He was going to take an aggressive stance against the lockdowns because he saw them as inherently demonic in a literal sense.
The virtues don’t mention “control,” do they? These folks plain and simply do not like to be told what to do yet find it virtuous to tell everyone else how to behave. Again, is control a virtue?
It is according to the Seven Mountain Mandate, which is the NAR’s goal for taking over all of society. I would encourage you to read American Dominion! It talks about all of these things.
It's time to stop using the teachings of Jesus to attack the blasphemous postings of others. our constant use of Jesus for political leverage appears injudicious and hackneyed to me. The practice of using a respected spiritual influence by either side just seems ethically questionable. We should be able to make our case without having to use Jesus as a club. The few will continue their hypocritical use of Jesus. We must quit offering them impunity by doing the same thing. I hope this is brought up at the 5:00 discussion you are having today.
I can see arguments for Christians not to speak about Jesus when talking to the people in power, otherwise we take on characteristics of the dominioninsts. There is a much stronger argument to talk about Jesus when talking to other Christians. A few points to be made to other Christians.
1) Jesus specifically said that his Kingdom was not of this world. He told Peter to put away his sword. We don't fight against a Muslim influence using politics or aggression from ICE. We challenge Islam through the preaching of Christ as Paul did in Rome
2) Mr Trump has crossed a line and made himself a figure in the spiritual/church realm by allowing others to compare himself to the Messiah/Christ. He is no longer just "commander in Chief" after he accepted claims of Messiah.
He accepted this title after he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and then accepting the prayer and prophecy of Paula White, finally with his picture of himself as Christ. It is necessary for church leaders to warn the flock to avoid following a heretic with the spirit of an anti-Christ
3) Morally we should be showing care for the poor, the widows, the orphan's, the sojourner in our midst and it is right to advocate for them.
What I found very enlightening as I did the research for American Dominion was the role of British Israelism in the development of much of today’s dominionism. British Israelism teaches that white people are the literal Israel of the Bible in a racial and anthropological sense.
We have a large team teaching churches to offer friendship and hospitality to Muslims in their locality. During COVID local Imams sent people to our community centre because it is known for its generosity. We've seen many Muslims being baptised in London in the past 5 years
Definitely adding to my booklist. Matt Taylor's ICS session last night (in his antisemitism course) was the best yet, with some really great discussion of how the eschatology of the dominionist NAR crowd is influencing American evangelical end times views all around - toward a "victorious eschatology". Talked about messianic Judaism in the mix too. Wow...
Glad my fav podcast folks are back at it!
The publisher said we can look at an audio book when enough copies have sold!
One challenge presented by Taylor’s work is how severely he limits the NAR exclusively to the networks around C. Peter Wagner (and even then he excludes some significant players who were directly connected to Wagner, notably Bill Johnson). In American Dominion, I show how Mike Bickle became a bridge figure between the Latter Rain Revival and the NAR. He has a very different, premillennial eschatology in which Christians pray the plagues of Revelation down from heaven. This eschatology bears some striking similarities to Identity theology, which branched off of what became the NAR during the Latter Rain.
It's all really fascinating. My wife and I were college group leaders in a large baptist church for a while. I always thought the dispy stuff was just mostly hamrless and goofy. Since reading Kristin's book, as well as Katherine Stewart's "Power worshipers" (read them both 3 times), and then Matt's book I've come to see it's not harmless at all. It's been really interesting to look at social media content from old church folks now in light of Matt's work.
American Dominion may also be a worthwhile read! It shows how what has come to the mainstream in recent years is far more extreme than anything that Jerry Falwell or other previous leaders of the Religious Right could have promoted.
Oh I’m definitely gonna read it. Too bad no audiobook!
I’m not a subscriber but I bought the book.
Thank you for the excellent synopsis and discussion of this important book. The connection of Christianity to the Trump regime is something that ai struggle with understanding, no matter how much research and exploring i do. This book sounds like it provides some important perspective. Thanks for highlighting it, and the general discussion of how religion has been involved in the disruptive moment we find ourselves living in.
I hope you enjoy reading it!
Thank you for this Kristen! Always good to get a serious book recommendation especially from you. Also it was lovely to see your shining face today on TCU and your insights were great as well as getting a good chuckle from the meme discussion !
Thank you as always Kristin!
Check out JV Last’s Triad post today. It echoes and piggyback’s what you are saying. As always-Thanks Kristin!!!
The book excerpt reminds me that concurrent with Feucht's eruption in San Francisco, the Roman Catholic bishop was hanging banners on his parish churches protesting covid "oppression." Lots of nuts out there, some wily and dangerous.
I’m not sure if this applies directly to what you are describing, but in American Dominion, I did address the connection between Catholic Integralists (such as JD Vance and the Heritage Foundation’s Kevin Roberts) and Protestant dominionists.
Much to the distress of such good Catholics as Nancy Pelosi, Pope Benedict appointed a very right wing bishop in SF. I'm sure he's comfortable with the integralists.
I would love to hear your thoughts on American Dominion!
Feucht had a concert in the town adjacent to us, I kept warning years back of the influence of these dominionists & other related networks creeping in all over California (also church plants and the mega churches as outposts). I ended several friendships as they were clearly becoming brainwashed. (One argued with me way back when I saw this creeping in that Hillary was part of Pizzagate. Also, her daughter went to Bethel). Their conferences in lovely So California were hits tgat many churches were a part of... I still think a Hollywood style tour bus of such influencers, gathering sites & their history would be a hit, lol! Maybe a house tour like Sean's $$$homes.
Sean Feucht is such an important figure, and he is so irritating that we would like to pretend he does not matter. I saw him on his Let Us Worship tour a few years ago. In American Dominion, I show how his theology of worship as a form of warfare comes out of the Latter Rain revival. He takes this concept literally and uses worship to demonize those who oppose him.
I look forward to reading your book, I know little about the Latter Rain revival.. He is absolutely a huge influence & joins (and leads) many in demonizing the opposition, influencing crowds he serenades with his "worship" music... basically a form of brain washing.
There seems to be two flavors of dominionist these days: this one referenced in the book connected to the NAR and then the Reformed people like Doug Wilson and Pete Hegseth. If they ever got what they wanted, they’d almost have to battle each other for ultimate control. 😬 They have some similarities theologically but more differences!
Yes, but they started coming together politically in the mid-1970s already. Some people exist entirely in one strand of the other. Many are influenced by both, whether they realize it or not.
Additionally there are many common origins that provide disparate groups with a shared goal. For example, the distinct governmental spheres of Reconstructionism and the “seven spheres” that became the Seven Mountain Mandate both come from distortions of Abraham Kuyper’s “sphere sovereignty” via Cornelius van Till. And both Rousas John Rushdoony and Francis Schaeffer studied under van Till, with Schaeffer basing much of his later work on Rushdoony’s writings. We also find Neo-Confederacy intertwined with Reconstructionism, so there is little surprise that it has so much in common with today’s white supremacism.
yes, these common roots are key and make sense of cooperation across theological differences.
Politically together for now, but I don’t know if they would be able to actually “rule” together if it worked out like they want. The NAR recognizes female prophets and apostles and Wilson wants to take away women’s right to vote. I guess it just gives me hope that it wouldn’t actually work. I have no desire to go back into crazy cult land again. I value my freedom!
I talk about the Doug Wilson and other Reconstructionist types along with NAR types and others who don’t quite fit either mold (like David Barton) in American Dominion.
Sounds like I need to get the book!
I was a part of a charismatic Christian organization that, in general, held very similar beliefs to what is written here about Sean Feucht. Charismatic Christianity is not a monolith -- there were even progressive types who were careful about colonialism in missions and advocated for social justice. And also, the seeds for Christian nationalism grew up with care for the marginalized. I fear the good in charismatic circles (the radical belief that God is actively working in the world, right here, right now) has been overtaken by violence.
And I can sympathize with Feucht in the midst of shut-downs. It does FEEL restrictive from one point of view. But I ended up taking a different view, that we needed to protect and care for people (especially those with compromised or vulnerable immune systems) by restricting my own liberty.
I feel for my co-religionists in the charismatic world. And something I learned while in that realm rings true today: "What you believe has real, tangible consequences in this world."
Those are very good points! My approach to Pentecostalism is that it is not a monolith and has origins all over the world, including with the Pyongyang Revival, Azusa Street Revival, and Welsh Revival. Charles Fox Parham’s version was just one strand, and that is what came to shape the NAR. Globally, the Pentecostal message — that God is right here with us and that we can experience God’s miracle-working power in our daily lives — has been political dynamite, especially for people living under oppression. Unfortunately, the NAR version has come to dominate in recent years. I attribute much of this to the worship music coming out of places like Bethel Church and Hillsong, along with the influence of YWAM.
Seems like an interesting book, but I find myself growing increasingly frustrated and critical with my loved ones when I see influences like dominionism in them. @DrDuMez, I’m sure you’re not new to this feeling, how do you keep from getting into constant arguments about all the topics you research and write about?
I don’t generally try to change people’s minds. I just try to get the best information in front of people when they’re ready to see.
Avoiding arguments and getting to the heart of the matter can definitely be a meaningful approach, especially when we do not want to further isolate people into their own silos (while also siloing ourselves). When thinking about something that is under attack by dominionists, such as public schools, I try to look at something people of all stripes care about, in this case, the special needs of children with developmental and learning challenges. There is no requirement at all that private schools even admit special-needs students, but public schools are required to meet their needs. Most people know and love a child with special needs. This takes away the argument and gets right to a reason why we should care about public schools.
Such a good example. I worked in our public schools for 5 years and the care and resources devoted to special needs students was inspiring. I also cite the seriousness with which abuse allegations (not to mention camp safety precautions) are taken, in contrast to churches' responses. When I was a student teacher, a student told my host teacher her dad had spanked her so hard she couldn't sit down. The teacher had to call a hotline that day or risk being suspended. I've been volunteering in churches my whole adult life, and protecting kids has never been such a priority.
I work with children’s services and cannot tell you how much we rely on public schools to help our kids who have experienced complex trauma. Many, many children in foster care are years behind academically and have challenging behaviors as a result of the conditions they lived in. Too many of these kids will lose any chance they had without public schools.
The answer to the question, “What are you going to do, bro?” Is “Wait it out, this is temporary: there’s a world wide pandemic that’s killing millions and though it could appear we’re under attack, we aren’t. This will pass.”
As it has.
When Covid is an excuse for anger at people, the forces of power and money steer us from spirit. And now it’s “Thelma and Louise.” Think Jesus is your co-pilot as you drive off the cliff? Look again. Sequel unlikely!
Sean Feucht also has an aggressive personality type. If you read his first memoir, he shares a story from when he did premarital counseling and was advised to not marry his fiance because of the high risk that he would become abusive. He was going to take an aggressive stance against the lockdowns because he saw them as inherently demonic in a literal sense.
Thanks for your note. I don’t know him from Adam.
The virtues don’t mention “control,” do they? These folks plain and simply do not like to be told what to do yet find it virtuous to tell everyone else how to behave. Again, is control a virtue?
It is according to the Seven Mountain Mandate, which is the NAR’s goal for taking over all of society. I would encourage you to read American Dominion! It talks about all of these things.
Domination is a hallmark of this movement, and is the same spirit that has animated enslavers throughout history.
It's time to stop using the teachings of Jesus to attack the blasphemous postings of others. our constant use of Jesus for political leverage appears injudicious and hackneyed to me. The practice of using a respected spiritual influence by either side just seems ethically questionable. We should be able to make our case without having to use Jesus as a club. The few will continue their hypocritical use of Jesus. We must quit offering them impunity by doing the same thing. I hope this is brought up at the 5:00 discussion you are having today.
I can see arguments for Christians not to speak about Jesus when talking to the people in power, otherwise we take on characteristics of the dominioninsts. There is a much stronger argument to talk about Jesus when talking to other Christians. A few points to be made to other Christians.
1) Jesus specifically said that his Kingdom was not of this world. He told Peter to put away his sword. We don't fight against a Muslim influence using politics or aggression from ICE. We challenge Islam through the preaching of Christ as Paul did in Rome
2) Mr Trump has crossed a line and made himself a figure in the spiritual/church realm by allowing others to compare himself to the Messiah/Christ. He is no longer just "commander in Chief" after he accepted claims of Messiah.
He accepted this title after he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and then accepting the prayer and prophecy of Paula White, finally with his picture of himself as Christ. It is necessary for church leaders to warn the flock to avoid following a heretic with the spirit of an anti-Christ
3) Morally we should be showing care for the poor, the widows, the orphan's, the sojourner in our midst and it is right to advocate for them.
What I found very enlightening as I did the research for American Dominion was the role of British Israelism in the development of much of today’s dominionism. British Israelism teaches that white people are the literal Israel of the Bible in a racial and anthropological sense.
I hope you include all religions like Muslim’s in the poverty group you want to help care for
We have a large team teaching churches to offer friendship and hospitality to Muslims in their locality. During COVID local Imams sent people to our community centre because it is known for its generosity. We've seen many Muslims being baptised in London in the past 5 years